Planetocopia Map Thread

[Forbiddenparadise64]

@Molotov Jack and @Halogen did this map as a fun exercise involving mirrored America as a spinoff of mutually upcoming mapping projects.

Granted, if we were to add a little more realism, the new Aleutians would probably blunt the mid-Atlantic current, resulting in northern Britain and mainland Europe being cooler or at least more continental than otl, but it does look like a fun TL to live in.

 

[naraht]

@Molotov Jack and @Halogen did this map as a fun exercise involving mirrored America as a spinoff of mutually upcoming mapping projects.

View attachment 890857
Granted, if we were to add a little more realism, the new Aleutians would probably blunt the mid-Atlantic current, resulting in northern Britain and mainland Europe being cooler or at least more continental than otl, but it does look like a fun TL to live in.

Of course the new aleutians mean that crossing the Atlantic requires jumps no more than 100 miles from island to island. Of course, the islands would Our earth Greenlandic, and the question is how many of those would be travelled.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Of course the new aleutians mean that crossing the Atlantic requires jumps no more than 100 miles from island to island. Of course, the islands would Our earth Greenlandic, and the question is how many of those would be travelled.

Well, the ‘eastern’ most ones would be temperate, so not as bad, and as you go further west, they become subpolar oceanic, similar to the southern fringes of Iceland or western Norway, before taiga, along with the southern coast of Alaska. Then sailors could travel around the harsh coast and eventually end up in the now monsoonal “west” (now east) coast.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

@Molotov Jack and @Halogen did this map as a fun exercise involving mirrored America as a spinoff of mutually upcoming mapping projects.

View attachment 890857
Granted, if we were to add a little more realism, the new Aleutians would probably blunt the mid-Atlantic current, resulting in northern Britain and mainland Europe being cooler or at least more continental than otl, but it does look like a fun TL to live in.

Easternmost Siberia is missing, tho.

Where's there some cold steppe and cold desert in Antarctica.

 

[Gabingston]

I suspect the first humans in Mirrored America would come from Europe rather than Northeast Asia, and that contact between the Old and New World would be established much earlier and be more regular (the Vikings at the very latest if there's a butterfly net). It'd be interesting if some of TTL's Native Americans spoke languages distantly related to Basque or other pre-IE European languages.

 

[Altaic]

@Molotov Jack and @Halogen did this map as a fun exercise involving mirrored America as a spinoff of mutually upcoming mapping projects.

Laughs in the randomly cut off Chukotka

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

@Molotov Jack has finished V6 now! Looking better than ever! He also did some other videos for precipitation using study data, so credit where it is due!

https://imgur.com/HYot065

A gif showing annual precipitation patterns across months.

Cumulative rainfall across the year, particularly areas with significant amounts.

The wettest places on retrograde Earth.

Keep in mind this climate map for Retrograde assumes preindustrial CO2 levels. According to a quick Google search, otl earth has warmed up by roughly 1.1C on average since the start of the Industrial Revolution, and according to the study data, retrograde earth is about 0.14C cooler globally than prograde, though the division between hemispheres isn’t even, with the northern hemisphere being 0.55C cooler on average and the southern hemisphere being 0.28C warmer on average compared to preindustrial prograde.

So if you wanted to make the comparison between otl and retro more “fair”, removing the influence of anthropogenic climate change would be needed.

 

[Mt.82-9]

@Molotov Jack has finished V6 now! Looking better than ever! He also did some other videos for precipitation using study data, so credit where it is due!

https://imgur.com/HYot065

A gif showing annual precipitation patterns across months.

Whoa that's pretty, where does the winter rainfall in Iran and northern India come from again? Is it a similar to what happens in North American winters where the jet dips down and forms low pressure systems that pull in rain, or is precipitation coming in from the north?

Trying to work out a climate map for this and figured I might as well ask for advice here, since it started out as a simple Shiveria/Turnovia combination. Right now, this is just a rough sketch trying to work out the basics- grayish-purple is major mountain ranges, brown is deserts, green is tropical/tropical-adjacent forested areas, orangey-yellow is "I thought something climatologically interesting would be happening here when I was first putting the map together but had too bad a headache to work it out, and now I can't remember what my past self thought said interesting climate thing would be." Any feedback/criticism/suggestions/etc. on climate distribution is welcome.

I think that I thought about this scenario briefly too. The most interesting thing I was thinking then was how cold currents flank Africa in both the north and south, meaning its likely a very dry continent except for The Cape, despite being equatorial. Arabia to Pakistan being a subsequently hyper-isolated cold maritime region could be interesting or boring depending on where you sit on Jaredianism. Message me if you want to collaborate on this in the future, a Big-Shiveria collab would be a nice project to follow up on the work Pecu and others have been doing with Jaredia.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Laughs in the randomly cut off Chukotka

Well it was a quick edit, and either way, it’d be right next to ttl’s Iceland.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Its been a while. Here's how far we've gone with the climate thus far for Jaredia. I still think Wayan was right and Bird Head in Papua should be tropical but what do you guys think?.

Anyways, main reason I posted here again is I need help with the amount of glacial compression in Africa and Arabia especially but I guess, Spain, Anatolia and Greece to a lesser extent.

As African and the Arabian Shield are kinda connected and the main focus, I think they'll be easiest to calcualate for. One just needs to calculate the average glacier height and calculate how much compression that'll cause.

To calcualate the average glacier height I would guess it'll be this "(Greeland glacier volume + Antarctica Ice volume + sea level fall volume) / area of glacier cover in Africa and Arabia. This of cause, assumes glaciers in Greece, Anatolia and Spain are negligible now, they might not be negligible but certainly, their thickness should vary significantly from Africa and Arabia's and might thus be grounds for separate calculation as well.

But more importantly, I don't know how to get the surface area calculation for Africa and Arabia, I don't know how to get the volume calculation for sea level fall of 32-34 metres and I don't know how to calcualate for how much crust compression a certain amount of glacial height would cause and I assume that is going to be the hardest to calcualate, especially as I'll then need to calculate it's elastic deformation effect beyond the glacier on the rest of the continent (or sub-continent), you know, how it'll affect South Africa and Gulf Arabia sea levels(so for real world example, how much the Laurentide and Cordellan sheet affect the rest of North America and how much did the European ice sheet affect southern Europe sea levels) and potentially how much strain would be on the adjacent rocks and what geologic effects they may have (new mining veins? New volcanos? I know Glaciers do reduce volcanos and crust movement where they are directly on but how much do they affect areas just adjacent to the glaciers).

Somewhere like Somalia I think should have at least Greenland levels of compression from being so close and probably being once Glaciated or at least, Antarctic Peninsula levels. Wait, is the level of compression of the Antarctic Peninsula different from that of the rest of the continent?.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Also, how does one calculate how much unit lengths of compression is done per unit height of glacier?.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Its been a while. Here's how far we've gone with the climate thus far for Jaredia. I still think Wayan was right and Bird Head in Papua should be tropical but what do you guys think?.

Anyways, main reason I posted here again is I need help with the amount of glacial compression in Africa and Arabia especially but I guess, Spain, Anatolia and Greece to a lesser extent.

As African and the Arabian Shield are kinda connected and the main focus, I think they'll be easiest to calcualate for. One just needs to calculate the average glacier height and calculate how much compression that'll cause.

To calcualate the average glacier height I would guess it'll be this "(Greeland glacier volume + Antarctica Ice volume + sea level fall volume) / area of glacier cover in Africa and Arabia. This of cause, assumes glaciers in Greece, Anatolia and Spain are negligible now, they might not be negligible but certainly, their thickness should vary significantly from Africa and Arabia's and might thus be grounds for separate calculation as well.

But more importantly, I don't know how to get the surface area calculation for Africa and Arabia, I don't know how to get the volume calculation for sea level fall of 32-34 metres and I don't know how to calcualate for how much crust compression a certain amount of glacial height would cause and I assume that is going to be the hardest to calcualate, especially as I'll then need to calculate it's elastic deformation effect beyond the glacier on the rest of the continent (or sub-continent), you know, how it'll affect South Africa and Gulf Arabia sea levels(so for real world example, how much the Laurentide and Cordellan sheet affect the rest of North America and how much did the European ice sheet affect southern Europe sea levels) and potentially how much strain would be on the adjacent rocks and what geologic effects they may have (new mining veins? New volcanos? I know Glaciers do reduce volcanos and crust movement where they are directly on but how much do they affect areas just adjacent to the glaciers).

Somewhere like Somalia I think should have at least Greenland levels of compression from being so close and probably being once Glaciated or at least, Antarctic Peninsula levels. Wait, is the level of compression of the Antarctic Peninsula different from that of the rest of the continent?.

So, be and the boys did a rough calculation and got 1.77 km is the average for Africa and Arabia Glaciers. Add Hispania's Glaciers and that and average of 1.76 km thickness. I think given the fall in ocean surface area and smaller glaciers that's unaccounted for, the smaller estimate is safer, so 1.76 km thick.

For comparison, in OTL Greenland's average thickness is 2.3 https://climate.nasa.gov/giv-about-...heet has an,percent of the world's freshwater. and Antarctica's is 2.16. https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/antarct...hickest point the,all the world's fresh water.

Is this difference problematic?. Is it handwavable? Because like, Greenland is still part of the world Ocean but it's glacier height is still much greater so I don't think I can hand wave it with the lack of Circumpolar current for Africa. So here's what I can do, valleys seem to be able to hold a lot of glacier ice but much of Africa is an excarpment.

But second and maybe more importantly, I think Africa will have several large Sub-Glacial lakes around Africa (mega Chad, Congo, Victoria-Internal, the various Sahara lakes etc) all acting to melt the glaciers and discharge excess water from underneath into the world Ocean does feel like a good excuse to have a thinner glacier as they're in constant contact with water that melts them and keeps them in check unlike Greenland and Antarctic Glaciers that have smaller Sub-Glacial lakes and the Sub-Glacial lakes they have, don't drain into the world ocean. What effects would this have on the world?.

I may be wrong but I suspect this water won't have much nutrients. Cold nutrient poor water could be something of a contradiction to the normal way of things but it should be good at dissolving in nutrients from the rest of the ocean as a cold, clean stream. It'll be kind of like a stream of starved water keeping nutrients clear and won't sink and be a different layer even tho cold due to clean water being less dense than salt water.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

I am still wondering how this, let's say 1.75 km thick Icesheet over Africa would affect the coastline? Effective to how many metres of below sea level would Ice compressed Africa be?.

Best I can do is this study. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018219304845

Compressed Antarctica.

Eocene is before Ice compression Antarctica.

However, I can't figure out the difference in coastline elevation between both. If someone knows how to read this better to figure it out, help.

But let me return to the top map. With my stuff about Sub-Glacial lakes, we have several sources of melt water that join the current coming from Atlantic Africa to Europe, from the Kongo, Niger, Gambia-Senegal and the Mediterranean. The water from the Caspian would help warm it a bit and supply some nutrients but it'll still be essentially a current with a separate, top layer of melt water.

The prevailing winds over Hispania, France and Great Britain are also away from the land. Very cold current plus wind away from land I think should either expand the Tundra climate south as an Arctic Desert, as far as the English Channel, or create a climate zone that's something between Dsc and Cold Desert from the Pyranees Tundra to Great Britain.

 

[Whitelisted7]

Repartition of the Honey Badger, or Ratel (Mellivora capensis) in retrograde earth. Considered OTL climate and honey badger repartition, and Molotov's retrograde climate map V5.

 

[Linbot]

@Molotov Jack and @Halogen did this map as a fun exercise involving mirrored America as a spinoff of mutually upcoming mapping projects.

View attachment 890857
Granted, if we were to add a little more realism, the new Aleutians would probably blunt the mid-Atlantic current, resulting in northern Britain and mainland Europe being cooler or at least more continental than otl, but it does look like a fun TL to live in.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that this basically just looks like retrograde earth.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

But more importantly, I don't know how to get the surface area calculation for Africa and Arabia,

Well Africa is much larger and less elevated than Antarctica so can hold more ice resulting in lower sea levels, though it’s different shape allows some of the fringes to be more tolerable, just as in the original Jaredia.

Repartition of the Honey Badger, or Ratel (Mellivora capensis) in retrograde earth. Considered OTL climate and honey badger repartition, and Molotov's retrograde climate map V5.

View attachment 892056

Ooh very interesting design here, it’s interesting seeing how certain organisms may spread out as a result. Is this based on places they can tolerate in otl?

Leopards probably wouldn’t change their range much at all really. It’s funny they didn’t go that far into Europe in otl despite the milder weather. According to this climate comparison site, the Amur leopard’s range is cooler in both summer and winter than the Ukraine, let alone the Balkans, where lions ranges partially in classical times. Maybe just one of those things, or that they weren’t great at crossing bodies of water.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that this basically just looks like retrograde earth.

Well yeah he made it while creating V6 of retrograde, so it figures.

 

[PingKiwi]

However, I can't figure out the difference in coastline elevation between both. If someone knows how to read this better to figure it out, help.

It looks like the maximum compression is about a kilometer, I doubt the african ice caps would be much heavier at least on the coast. Most of the coast looks closer to a half kilometer of compression, with the most I can spot being around a kilometer and a half in the center. I'm no geologist but that's how I understand it

 

[Linbot]

@Molotov Jack has finished V6 now! Looking better than ever! He also did some other videos for precipitation using study data, so credit where it is due!

https://imgur.com/HYot065

A gif showing annual precipitation patterns across months.

Cumulative rainfall across the year, particularly areas with significant amounts.

The wettest places on retrograde Earth.

Keep in mind this climate map for Retrograde assumes preindustrial CO2 levels. According to a quick Google search, otl earth has warmed up by roughly 1.1C on average since the start of the Industrial Revolution, and according to the study data, retrograde earth is about 0.14C cooler globally than prograde, though the division between hemispheres isn’t even, with the northern hemisphere being 0.55C cooler on average and the southern hemisphere being 0.28C warmer on average compared to preindustrial prograde.

So if you wanted to make the comparison between otl and retro more “fair”, removing the influence of anthropogenic climate change would be needed.

I was meaning to go compare this to the last version, but it turns out that imgur has deleted it! You wouldn't happen to have it saved anywhere?

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Hell yeah, boys. Also, the people that were doing river fixing for Jaredia V3, if you're still interested, we've started fixing the rivers of North America but we'll still need help with the rest of the process.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Okay, so now I did all the rivers and here's what I got.
The everything up and left of the Light Blue border is the laurentide basin and the Continious Yellow lines are rivers according to this study. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abj2938

While everything up and left of the dark blue border is the laurentide basin and the green lines additions to OTL rivers based on

Pleistocene Glaciers and Geography

While the light purple lines are OTL rivers and the cyan lines are substractions from the OTL rivers to get them closer to the above.