Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Great thing to wake up to and start the day with!
I'm excited to see where part 2 is and I'm especially excited to see you discuss social movements and political ramifications, especially since those were always your best chapters.
I joined a bit late in this TL, after I discovered it via TVTropes of all places lol. But I'm excited to continue following it and seeing all the ways you direct it!
I'm excited to see where part 2 is and I'm especially excited to see you discuss social movements and political ramifications, especially since those were always your best chapters.
I joined a bit late in this TL, after I discovered it via TVTropes of all places lol. But I'm excited to continue following it and seeing all the ways you direct it!
On that note, I recently re-watched a video from Voice's of the Past going over a Japanese embassy visit to the States, which commented briefly on the Civil War.
I hope that and other reactions will be briefly covered in the Reconstruction era.
I discovered this timeline from it's Tv tropes page and I must say it is one of the bests I've ever written. You have made it so detailed oriented and realistic that I couldn't help but be drawn into the story. I also love how you have shown that even with Lincoln being somewhat radicalized before the Presidency and the war begins that it still takes him a while before fully coming around to the idea that in order to win the war they need to destroy slavery and tear the old south door from root.
From the last chapter to this beautiful epilogue, I felt like I was actually seeing this in real time not as a reader but as someone who was living ITTL and when the war was finally over, I remember getting a little emotional just thinking of the elation and the relief that the union people felt along with the freed men and woman knowing that they had won the war and destroyed the old south. I'm so glad that unlike OTL, the confederate leaders and others are being put on trial. I always felt that was Lincoln's biggest mistake not having there be some sort of accountability. I mean I get why he didn't but still.
I can't wait for part 2. The Union has won the war now it just win the peace. I'm so hopeful for TTL's reconstruction, it will be more successful and when the KKK show their face (Well if they do since Nathan Bedford Forrest, it's founded is dead) The government will react even more severely than IOTL. Also I know we are far from this point of even if we get to this point, but I would be interested in talking more about an equivalence of Gone With The Wind for TTL, I have some ideas, not much but some. I shall eagerly await the start of the next thread.
From the last chapter to this beautiful epilogue, I felt like I was actually seeing this in real time not as a reader but as someone who was living ITTL and when the war was finally over, I remember getting a little emotional just thinking of the elation and the relief that the union people felt along with the freed men and woman knowing that they had won the war and destroyed the old south. I'm so glad that unlike OTL, the confederate leaders and others are being put on trial. I always felt that was Lincoln's biggest mistake not having there be some sort of accountability. I mean I get why he didn't but still.
I can't wait for part 2. The Union has won the war now it just win the peace. I'm so hopeful for TTL's reconstruction, it will be more successful and when the KKK show their face (Well if they do since Nathan Bedford Forrest, it's founded is dead) The government will react even more severely than IOTL. Also I know we are far from this point of even if we get to this point, but I would be interested in talking more about an equivalence of Gone With The Wind for TTL, I have some ideas, not much but some. I shall eagerly await the start of the next thread.
Grim but useful thought thought here: 40 Percent of White Men of Military age is also a rather large chunk of voters who would be opposed to reconstruction gone. Granted, Southern Whites will demographically recover over time and the Black male population certainly wasnt unscathed but it does increase the power of Black votes by a not insignificant margin.
It has been an amazing ride. I don't think socialism per se is guaranteed, I think something more like the liberalism that someone like a Charles McNary or Nelson Rockefeller would have had, especially with McNary being from the West and very big into farming. The problem of socialism is that, as Bebeuf said during the French revolution, it requires there to be social betters who are able to determine what is best for others and make distribution. That's not equality if you have someone who is socially "better."
Not only is the point about the small farming communities a very good one, but I think that this second American Revolution will leave scars that will cause a lot of people to look dubiously upon anyone who thinks that there are people who should be able to determine what distribution is made and so on. I mean, obviously, the federal government is doing this now but that's because it is doing so for a people who lacked any power to do it themselves.
This is why I really think the idea of some sort of merging with some Christian denominations, such as the Salvation Army, is possible when it comes to social movements. Whereas it is called in some countries, Christian socialism. I mean, there you are at least arguing that it is biblical and therefore it is not just people trying to do this to other people.
It will indeed be a lot of fun to see how the nation grows from here.
Not only is the point about the small farming communities a very good one, but I think that this second American Revolution will leave scars that will cause a lot of people to look dubiously upon anyone who thinks that there are people who should be able to determine what distribution is made and so on. I mean, obviously, the federal government is doing this now but that's because it is doing so for a people who lacked any power to do it themselves.
This is why I really think the idea of some sort of merging with some Christian denominations, such as the Salvation Army, is possible when it comes to social movements. Whereas it is called in some countries, Christian socialism. I mean, there you are at least arguing that it is biblical and therefore it is not just people trying to do this to other people.
It will indeed be a lot of fun to see how the nation grows from here.
Oh yeah, I meant more the captain. Had a book on it, probably lost or gave it away, was a interesting look.
Not to get into a political debate, but how is “Christian socialism” not even more flawed from this perspective? That’s not to say it wouldn’t be relevant, but I don’t see the connection of it being more prominent in this timeline specifically.
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I only just realized how huge this, the evolution of the Abolition movement and its formal evolution into a movement for Black suffrage. One that seems guided by African Americans themselves to boot. Setting aside how this will likely evolve into a more formal and organized organ of African American political power, it also sets the stage for similar groups to form. Perhaps we'll see leagues form in the west for Chinese rights, the women's suffrage movement will undoubtedly be impacted by this, to say nothing of Immigrant groups with focuses upon Catholic and Jewish rights.
All of these groups existed OTL of course, but this will change how they're organized and how they're perceived. Exciting stuff.
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Oh, it is flawed, but I'm thinking from the point of view of someone in the 1870s. With the nation much more religious, they might be more likely to get behind the idea of "God says to give to others, to care for the poor, to make sure widows and orphans are looked after, etc.." Instead of a political system where some grou
But yes, with flawed people still being the ones to physically administer any division, there are still serious flaws.
This was an amazing thread! I wonder how the New Afrikan Independence Movement/Black belt theory will build with a longer/actually “successful” reconstruction. Will probably be less of a great migration northwards. Also interested to see if there will be greater interracial class solidarity among the working class
Wow it's finally come to an end, I've been following this timeline from the very beginning
Not to be annoying, but I am still very interested in how the prophet's line of succession would go depending on what happens to Young and when.
Well, it does make for a poetic book end to the Civil War, in a sense.
Thinking on the question of what happens to the former Confederate soldiers, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of them in exile slowly but inexorably grows over the years. While there is an entire generation of Southern white men that has been utterly eviscerated by the war, there are still a lot of those men left around, angry, feeling dispossessed, deeply traumatised, and struggling to adjust to the explicitly revolutionary changes in the world around them. Many of them will have few to no useful skills outside of warfare and violence, and while some will take their anger out on the planter class and assimilate into the new world around them in time, many will not. Coupled with what is presumably a massive, massive surplus of weapons just lying around that are no longer needed and would be impossible for the central government to completely account for let alone remove from circulation, I think that unfortunately that means that these bandit terrorist groups are going to have a very easy time getting a constant stream of new warm bodies to throw at the authorities for some time to come, probably a generation or even more. I can see a few things emerging from this: (1) a strong tradition with explicit government support for black freedmen arming themselves and defending their properties with armed force because the government can't be everywhere all at once, especially with the size of the area that needs to be covered and the constant demands of Reconstruction on logistics and resources; (2) a very powerful national security state from about 1860 onwards, which will probably cause a lot of political headaches and hard questions to be asked around the turn of the century (because these things are way easier to build than they are to tear down); and (3) a constant stream of mercenaries from white Southerners who fought in the war but are incapable or unwilling to submit to the new order yet don't want to be terrorists either, who make a living selling violence as a service to the European monarchies in particular. This last one is probably the most unpredictable; who knows what could result from a generation two of these men acting as guns for hire throughout the world.
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It feels so weird to have the civil war end. I started reading this timeline in August, 2019, about 2 weeks before starting my first semester of college. And now its over, and I will have my Bachelor's degree in May. Its funny that my journey with this alt war began with school, and now it ends as I near my final year of university.
Reading this timeline was one of the things that helped keep me sane during 2020, when I couldn't go anywhere or do anything. I'm so glad to be able to see the end of part 1 of this timeline.
Reading this timeline was one of the things that helped keep me sane during 2020, when I couldn't go anywhere or do anything. I'm so glad to be able to see the end of part 1 of this timeline.
That could lead to a weird ass tradition for southern men for a few generations. That idea would be pretty neat, even if its unpredictable.