Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3

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9 Fanged Hummingbird

9 Fanged Hummingbird

Claymore said:
Yup, a Divisional marking - which one I can’t quite remember.
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War Thunder tells me it's the "4th Tank Division", not sure how accurate that is.

I'm guessing it's supposed to represent an Eagle of Saladin, the modern Egyptian heraldic symbol, and IRL seems to have been painted on IS-3s during parades for a time. That said, for all the attention it gets in the model-making community (since the IS-3 kits generally seem to come with that paint scheme as standard, I might still have that decal in a box somewhere), the Egyptian armored forces have from the 50's to the present had some of the coolest insignia and decals out there. Can't find a good picture atm but there was a Sherman unit marking from the 50's that had a chariot and archer drawn in the ancient style on it.
 
Claymore

Claymore

La Rouge Beret said:
What does the Eagle represent - is that a Divisional insignia?
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Claymore said:
Yup, a Divisional marking - which one I can’t quite remember.
Click to expand...

9 Fanged Hummingbird said:
War Thunder tells me it's the "4th Tank Division", not sure how accurate that is.

I'm guessing it's supposed to represent an Eagle of Saladin, the modern Egyptian heraldic symbol, and IRL seems to have been painted on IS-3s during parades for a time. That said, for all the attention it gets in the model-making community (since the IS-3 kits generally seem to come with that paint scheme as standard, I might still have that decal in a box somewhere), the Egyptian armored forces have from the 50's to the present had some of the coolest insignia and decals out there. Can't find a good picture atm but there was a Sherman unit marking from the 50's that had a chariot and archer drawn in the ancient style on it.
Click to expand...

Ninja’d! Just looked it up and, as @9 Fanged Hummingbird says, it’s 4th Armoured. 🙂
 

Bougnas

Has anyone in here tried to use From the Depths as a near-realistic-looking AFV designer? It's not as clean as Sprocket but personally I find the latter very hard to use to make complex hull and turret shapes and layouts and I feel like having blocks of different shapes to make what I want makes FtD a bit easier to use.

In particular I wanted to make a version of the Light Tank T92's turret without MG subturrets and upscaled to use a 105mm M68 or comparable gun, sort of like Object 225 but with a moveable gun roof to provide greater gun depression.
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As a sidenote, I think T92's turret without cupolas is a pretty good starting block for a lower profile, autoloaded M60A2-style turret.
 

Hammerbolt

Bougnas said:
Has anyone in here tried to use From the Depths as a near-realistic-looking AFV designer? It's not as clean as Sprocket but personally I find the latter very hard to use to make complex hull and turret shapes and layouts and I feel like having blocks of different shapes to make what I want makes FtD a bit easier to use.

In particular I wanted to make a version of the Light Tank T92's turret without MG subturrets and upscaled to use a 105mm M68 or comparable gun, sort of like Object 225 but with a moveable gun roof to provide greater gun depression.
View attachment 868826View attachment 868827

As a sidenote, I think T92's turret without cupolas is a pretty good starting block for a lower profile, autoloaded M60A2-style turret.
Click to expand...
And now my brain froze on "autoloader 152mm"... x'D
 

Parma

Probbably of no significance but just a what if question.
Below one of the few pre-WW2 Dutch designed and produced armored car . The DAF M39 a 4x6 drive armored car armed with 3 x M20 (Lewis) MG and a Bofors 37 mm antitank gun. Around 12 cars were produced
The technical significance was that it was with an all-welded monocoque construction of the hull.
There was a sucsessor of this type, around 12 were under construction, whith the only difference a more powered Ford V8 and a 6x6 drive, named M40.
Now the what if question; DAF was designing a medium tank based on this design. Maingun probably a Bohler 47 mm which would be domesticly produced by a Philips subcontractor underllisence. And powered by a Ford engine, since there was a Ford motor factory near Amsterdam.
Is there any drawing or models of this tracked medium AFV so not the M39 but the mediumtank design?


en.wikipedia.org

M39 Pantserwagen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
ierhwaj9.jpg
2b05b9b2fb191e503dc1f09d7571c07f54250b4d.jpeg

N-44946_DAFMuseum_PAW_AFB_1_KENSE.jpg
N-44946%20M-39%20pantserwagen%20Dafmuseum%20zijaanzicht.jpg
N-44946_NIMH_DB-044-086_publ-dom.jpg
 
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Bougnas

Parma said:
Probbably of no significance but just a what if question.
Below one of the few pre-WW2 Dutch designed produced armored car . The DAF M39. a 4x6 drive armored car amred with 3 x M20 (Lewis) MG and a Bohler 4,7 mm antitank gun. some 12 cars were produced
There was a sucsessor whith the only difference a slightly more poewered Ford V8 and 6x6 drive.
Now the what if question; DAF was designing a medium tank based on this design. Maingun probably a Bohler 4,7 mm which would be domesticly produced by a Philips subcontractor underllisence. And powered by a Ford engine, since there was a Ford motor factory near Amsterdam.
Is there any drawing of this tracked medium AFV?


en.wikipedia.org

M39 Pantserwagen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
ierhwaj9.jpg
2b05b9b2fb191e503dc1f09d7571c07f54250b4d.jpeg

N-44946_DAFMuseum_PAW_AFB_1_KENSE.jpg
N-44946%20M-39%20pantserwagen%20Dafmuseum%20zijaanzicht.jpg
N-44946_NIMH_DB-044-086_publ-dom.jpg
Click to expand...
I don't know, but in 1947 DAF proposed light tank designs again and they look very similar to a M39 on tracks, so it's possible that like the French with clandestine WW2 projects, DAF took inspiration from the prewar medium tank:
1699882498483.jpeg
1699882524244.jpeg
 

Parma

Bougnas said:
I don't know, but in 1947 DAF proposed light tank designs again and they look very similar to a M39 on tracks, so it's possible that like the French with clandestine WW2 projects, DAF took inspiration from the prewar medium tank:
View attachment 868842View attachment 868843
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Whow! that is a fast reply :)
Interesting drawing, and that it is from 1947, make it very plausible that it is based on earlier desings from 1940.
From which book is this?
 
Remitonov

Remitonov

Bougnas said:
Has anyone in here tried to use From the Depths as a near-realistic-looking AFV designer? It's not as clean as Sprocket but personally I find the latter very hard to use to make complex hull and turret shapes and layouts and I feel like having blocks of different shapes to make what I want makes FtD a bit easier to use.

In particular I wanted to make a version of the Light Tank T92's turret without MG subturrets and upscaled to use a 105mm M68 or comparable gun, sort of like Object 225 but with a moveable gun roof to provide greater gun depression.
View attachment 868826View attachment 868827

As a sidenote, I think T92's turret without cupolas is a pretty good starting block for a lower profile, autoloaded M60A2-style turret.
Click to expand...
"What is gun depression?"

Maybe the Object 225 turret can be swapped out with one resembling that of the M1128 Mobile Gun System (which uses the M68), or just made a full casemate like the Swedish S-Tank. Could apply to the T92 as well.
 
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Hammerbolt

Parma said:
Probbably of no significance but just a what if question.
Below one of the few pre-WW2 Dutch designed and produced armored car . The DAF M39 a 4x6 drive armored car armed with 3 x M20 (Lewis) MG and a Bofors 3,7 mm antitank gun. Around 12 cars were produced



en.wikipedia.org

M39 Pantserwagen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
2b05b9b2fb191e503dc1f09d7571c07f54250b4d.jpeg

N-44946_DAFMuseum_PAW_AFB_1_KENSE.jpg
Click to expand...
Ooo wow! An armoured car with a 37mm AT gun in 1939-1940?! I only knew of the french 178 with it's 25mm (even if they made a prototype with a 47mm). And the overall design looks great. Looks something that would be ideal for hit-and-run tacitcs.
 

Parma

Hammerbolt said:
Ooo wow! An armoured car with a 37mm AT gun in 1939-1940?! I only knew of the french 178 with it's 25mm (even if they made a prototype with a 47mm). And the overall design looks great. Looks something that would be ideal for hit-and-run tacitcs.
Click to expand...
The main armament of 37mm Bofors gun was based on the Swedish Landsverk 180/181 whihc was in use by the Dutch army as M36 and M38
 

Bougnas

Parma said:
Whow! that is a fast reply :)
Interesting drawing, and that it is from 1947, make it very plausible that it is based on earlier desings from 1940.
From which book is this?
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It should be from the book DAF en Defensie: van trado tot tropco 1935-2010. I got the info from the guy who runs the 20th century platoons blog and goes to the Dutch archives once in a while.
 

Hammerbolt

Parma said:
The main armament of 37mm Bofors gun was based on the Swedish Landsverk 180/181 whihc was in use by the Dutch army as M36 and M38
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... and the weird part is that I do remember this one... I think my brain just filed it under "much old and with diferent role"...
 

Bougnas

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Well, I would have to upscale it even more to give a more rounded and proportional appearance and you can't really do proper hatches and periscopes (replicated with doors, light alloy blocks and cameras), but it actually works? The forward part of the turret roof will move with the gun. Just the turret, I know we can apparently do fully tracked suspensions but just trying to get the turret right.
 

Bougnas

People who wish M26 entered service earlier to provide the more heavily armed and armored American tank might have missed the tank which had the greatest potential to enter service earlier if properly supported: the T14.

From user CaptianNemo on X:

"A vehicle can have a bad reputation. T14s tracks get a bad rep, although the suspension seems more at fault. It can be forgotten. Overshadowed by T26 and M4. And people can complain that its gun isn't very good. But what if it could have other guns?"

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There was an attempt (copied M4 Improved's angular turret style to not do rounded stuff).
 

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Hammerbolt

The T14 also served as basis for the future tanks, either as test bed or as proof (or not!) of concepts. Just think of it as a prototype series...
 
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