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Donor
Notice also that the lesson the Supreme Court seems to have learned from the Marshall impeachment is "don't try to protect civil liberties if you want to keep your job."
Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears
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John Farson
Banned
Intimidating the Supreme Court? No sir, nothing wrong there whatsoever.
That'll do wonders to the separation of powers.And Penthouse is dead
Granted, Bob Guccione's Caligula was a war crime (did it even get produced in TTL?), but killing the mag is still too much.How will Hugh Hefner act to prevent the same thing from happening to Playboy?
The entry on Malan was suitably chilling. I notice there was no death year for him, meaning he's still alive. Wonder how/if he was overthrown?
It just keeps getting worse and worse. The only silver lining is Dellums' bill, and with Rumsfeld fucking taking the 1st Amendment to the Guantanamo School of Medicine, the internet being strangled in the cradle, and Nixon's capture being a plot by someone (bad) wanting to take down Romanov (good), and the descriptions, particularly that of Malan.
Okay that does it. Rumsfeld and Cheney killed the Internet. This is war. Total war.
Also, "Yellow Peril" again? What the flying fuck is WRONG WITH CHENEY? And Gingrich, for that matter?
For the record I hope to high heavens that I'm wrong in my assumptions, but: what if CHENEY used a Russia proxy to kidnap Nixon, in order to create chaos within the Soviet Union and subsequently destabilize the regime enough to force a balkanization? This move also allowed Rumsfeld to promote a hardline stance against the Soviets.
Marc A
Also, "Yellow Peril" again? What the flying fuck is WRONG WITH CHENEY? And Gingrich, for that matter?
For the record I hope to high heavens that I'm wrong in my assumptions, but: what if CHENEY used a Russia proxy to kidnap Nixon, in order to create chaos within the Soviet Union and subsequently destabilize the regime enough to force a balkanization? This move also allowed Rumsfeld to promote a hardline stance against the Soviets.
Marc A
Holy Hannah, Cheney commissioned a study that included the possibility Alberta's secession from Canada?
I know that there was something of a Western separatist movement OTL but nothing really came out of it but I wonder about TTL. Are there enough Albertans who want to say, "screw this, we're leaving"?
I know that there was something of a Western separatist movement OTL but nothing really came out of it but I wonder about TTL. Are there enough Albertans who want to say, "screw this, we're leaving"?
Jesus, this just keeps getting worse-
The internet pretty much drowned at birth, civil liberties going in the tank with a law that looks like it'll go down in history right next to the Alien & Sedition Acts, & the Wilson's Administration's use of the Espionage Act of 1917 & Sedition Act of 1918, & a SCOTUS cowed into acquiescence by the Marshall impeachment (heck, that's probably why Rummy liked that whole exercise in stupidity), & a plan to stir up a new wave of 'Yellow Peril' propaganda related to the superbug to clear away potential opposition to what sounds like a plan to turn the country into a right-wing police state.
And Cheney's little brainbug about basically fucking over every single major ally of the US through promoting internal dissent because he wants to get rid of potential economic competition & increase their own power- well, that sound like it'll pretty much be the end of NATO and other regional alliances the US is part of & turn the US into an international pariah when it comes out, especially if that happens when Rummy and/or his people are in power or they've actually taken some steps towards that, as well as pretty much handing the Soviets the win in the Cold War if they don't collapse under their own problems.
Fortunately for Rummy, Cheney, & co, taking a shit on the Constitution, trying to turn the country into a police state & catastrophic mismanagement of foreign & domestic policy to further an extreme ideological agenda doesn't count as treason, since when the full extent of the damage they did comes out, there ought to be a lot of people wanting their scalps for fucking the country over, though, on balance, it's a good thing that the charge is so narrowly defined, because otherwise, they'd probably be trying to get politically annoying people executed on trumped up charges of treason instead of abusing other laws to imprison them on national security grounds.
About the only good thing for the US other than the eventual downfall of Rummy is education bill, if it goes through, even if that's for the wrong reasons (Rummy & Cheney seeing it as another way to splinter the opposition & increase their own power)
Though the Soviets seem to be playing things smarter economically & with their procurement, they still have an overstretch issue, & the reforms are generating a lot of backlash that sounds like it'll get ugly, with a coup attempt likely in the future, & whatever happened to Nixon seems like it's tied into this
South Africa looks like it's well on its way into becoming a Boer-supremacist fascist hellhole that's borrowing a few pages from the Nazis.
The bits on Kohl were interesting- kind of looking like things are headed to a at least a tripolar world, with western Europe collectively becoming the next big player through a good deal of German leadership
The internet pretty much drowned at birth, civil liberties going in the tank with a law that looks like it'll go down in history right next to the Alien & Sedition Acts, & the Wilson's Administration's use of the Espionage Act of 1917 & Sedition Act of 1918, & a SCOTUS cowed into acquiescence by the Marshall impeachment (heck, that's probably why Rummy liked that whole exercise in stupidity), & a plan to stir up a new wave of 'Yellow Peril' propaganda related to the superbug to clear away potential opposition to what sounds like a plan to turn the country into a right-wing police state.
And Cheney's little brainbug about basically fucking over every single major ally of the US through promoting internal dissent because he wants to get rid of potential economic competition & increase their own power- well, that sound like it'll pretty much be the end of NATO and other regional alliances the US is part of & turn the US into an international pariah when it comes out, especially if that happens when Rummy and/or his people are in power or they've actually taken some steps towards that, as well as pretty much handing the Soviets the win in the Cold War if they don't collapse under their own problems.
Fortunately for Rummy, Cheney, & co, taking a shit on the Constitution, trying to turn the country into a police state & catastrophic mismanagement of foreign & domestic policy to further an extreme ideological agenda doesn't count as treason, since when the full extent of the damage they did comes out, there ought to be a lot of people wanting their scalps for fucking the country over, though, on balance, it's a good thing that the charge is so narrowly defined, because otherwise, they'd probably be trying to get politically annoying people executed on trumped up charges of treason instead of abusing other laws to imprison them on national security grounds.
About the only good thing for the US other than the eventual downfall of Rummy is education bill, if it goes through, even if that's for the wrong reasons (Rummy & Cheney seeing it as another way to splinter the opposition & increase their own power)
Though the Soviets seem to be playing things smarter economically & with their procurement, they still have an overstretch issue, & the reforms are generating a lot of backlash that sounds like it'll get ugly, with a coup attempt likely in the future, & whatever happened to Nixon seems like it's tied into this
South Africa looks like it's well on its way into becoming a Boer-supremacist fascist hellhole that's borrowing a few pages from the Nazis.
The bits on Kohl were interesting- kind of looking like things are headed to a at least a tripolar world, with western Europe collectively becoming the next big player through a good deal of German leadership
Lycaon pictus
Donor
Holy Hannah, Cheney commissioned a study that included the possibility Alberta's secession from Canada?
I know that there was something of a Western separatist movement OTL but nothing really came out of it but I wonder about TTL. Are there enough Albertans who want to say, "screw this, we're leaving"?
There's probably some oil company that thinks it could get a better deal on tar sands from an independent Alberta.
That's the only rationale I can think of (other than "SKULLS FOR THE THRONE OF CHENEY" which it's too early to discount) for Cheney to be looking into this. It's not like Canada is any great threat to U.S. power as it is.
I don't know why everyone is saying that the Internet has been strangled at birth....
... I am quite sure that we will all have America Online to surf the *Net. NOTE: This joke only really works for people who came of age during the time of (or have heard about) the Eternal September.
I mean, it's got the name America in it and everything. Can't get more Mom, Baseball, and Apple Pie than that.
Just ignore the TRW minted moderators lurking in the background.
... I am quite sure that we will all have America Online to surf the *Net.
NOTE: This joke only really works for people who came of age during the time of (or have heard about) the Eternal September. I mean, it's got the name America in it and everything. Can't get more Mom, Baseball, and Apple Pie than that.
Just ignore the TRW minted moderators lurking in the background.
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Archibald
Banned
430 B-1A. Ouch.
Ryzhkov taking the path of the dead Gorbachev (Gorba-who ?)
Europe and Germany rising, with a possible cooperation with Ryzhkov reformed Soviet Union
(possibly sounds like this book, although a hundred time more realistic, and without the space programs) - did you read that book, Drew ?
Putin and his mentor Sobchak rising from their Saint Petersburg craddle.
Pasqua rising, too. Even if he never become president (and I hope so for that ATL France) an alliance of him with Le Pen is going to hurt a lot.
EDIT: Romanov was dumb OTL, and remains so in this TL (Getting to the top in the USSR is a master piece published in spring 1990, at the exact junction between the fall of the Berlin wall and the 1991 military coup)
Ryzhkov taking the path of the dead Gorbachev (Gorba-who ?)
Europe and Germany rising, with a possible cooperation with Ryzhkov reformed Soviet Union
(possibly sounds like this book, although a hundred time more realistic, and without the space programs) - did you read that book, Drew ?
Putin and his mentor Sobchak rising from their Saint Petersburg craddle.
Pasqua rising, too. Even if he never become president (and I hope so for that ATL France) an alliance of him with Le Pen is going to hurt a lot.
EDIT: Romanov was dumb OTL, and remains so in this TL (Getting to the top in the USSR is a master piece published in spring 1990, at the exact junction between the fall of the Berlin wall and the 1991 military coup)
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Interesting that Jefferson seems to include Sacremento but not The Bay Area. This is the first time Drew clarified how far south the border is. It's a smallish state certainly but my parents who'd be residents there would be pretty happy LOL.
Interesting side-note but in the event of all out nuclear war, there were no primary or secondary targets and only a few tertiary ones in the Jefferson area. That seems a bit relevant to this TL.
Interesting side-note but in the event of all out nuclear war, there were no primary or secondary targets and only a few tertiary ones in the Jefferson area. That seems a bit relevant to this TL.
There's something about the word "Rums-Cheney" which Gingrich uses that seems a little... odd, to me.
Orville_third
Banned
The only bright side I see is for vexillologists. (If Rumsfeld and Cheney try and get Scotland away, they might get Sean Connery on their side, but Alex Salmond is no Thatcher.)
Thande
Donor
Great updates! A lot of people have made comparisons to For All Time: I like how this TL is now featuring things that look like they come straight from that TL, like the Chinese superflu and the casual (possible) use of tactical nuclear weapons in South Africa, yet it's eased into them so gradually and smoothly that it never stopped feeling 'normal'. Which is far more horrifying.
I particularly liked the sequence with George VII and Healey because it felt realistic and also Drew has correctly shown the constitutional issues that would arise upon the incapacitation of a Prime Minister (more deeply explored in Meadow's "The Accidental Prime Minister"). Because the last time the UK actually had a PM die in office was 1865 when the PM was still largely appointed by the monarch and you could take a few days to do it at your leisure, there is no constitutional succession in place for who becomes PM if a PM dies in office or is incapacitated. And Deputy PM is not a position that exists in every cabinet, as Drew says it tends to be an office created to shuffle the chief member of the awkward squad to. So having Foot as 'coordinator' and caretaker was quite correct.
I particularly liked the sequence with George VII and Healey because it felt realistic and also Drew has correctly shown the constitutional issues that would arise upon the incapacitation of a Prime Minister (more deeply explored in Meadow's "The Accidental Prime Minister"). Because the last time the UK actually had a PM die in office was 1865 when the PM was still largely appointed by the monarch and you could take a few days to do it at your leisure, there is no constitutional succession in place for who becomes PM if a PM dies in office or is incapacitated. And Deputy PM is not a position that exists in every cabinet, as Drew says it tends to be an office created to shuffle the chief member of the awkward squad to. So having Foot as 'coordinator' and caretaker was quite correct.
Nice updates.
Cheney trying to break up friend & foe could bugger NATO once and for all. ''Prometheism'' didnt work the first time.
One thing I’ve been meaning to ask for awhile, but kept getting side-tracked. What about an update with a ‘’POV character’’ from Taiwan. We've seen events in China play out from a British, American, Soviet & Maoist etc POV.
Seeing what the Kuomintang/Taiwanese make of the mainland would be intresting…
Could just be a case of him taking ''Hollywood History'' at face value. No doubt Northern Ireland will get screwed over too. Maybe India too if Rummy-Dick are the ones who give it a fintal push it off the cliff.
As for Europe, I dont see the sepratism going anywhere, beyond pissing the goverments in those countries off. Ditto with the Soviets, through they may a have trouble in the Baltics & Caucasus, which may get bloody in a Northern Ireland sort of way.
Nah, ousting rivals U.S.S.R meant backroom-backstabbing I.E a palace coup. Not tanks in the streets.
The OTL August Coup only came after democratic elections & political-economic implosion caused by Gorbachev's f**k-ups.
Plus Lebed didn’t have the nerve to oust the rotting vodka-pickled corpses of Yeltsin & co OTL. He wouldn’t move against an entrenched regime.
Cheney trying to break up friend & foe could bugger NATO once and for all. ''Prometheism'' didnt work the first time.
One thing I’ve been meaning to ask for awhile, but kept getting side-tracked. What about an update with a ‘’POV character’’ from Taiwan. We've seen events in China play out from a British, American, Soviet & Maoist etc POV.
Seeing what the Kuomintang/Taiwanese make of the mainland would be intresting…
Could just be a case of him taking ''Hollywood History'' at face value. No doubt Northern Ireland will get screwed over too. Maybe India too if Rummy-Dick are the ones who give it a fintal push it off the cliff.
As for Europe, I dont see the sepratism going anywhere, beyond pissing the goverments in those countries off. Ditto with the Soviets, through they may a have trouble in the Baltics & Caucasus, which may get bloody in a Northern Ireland sort of way.
Uh-oh. Soviet coup or at least coup attempt brewing? The term "young officers" is almost always a bad sign.
Bruce
Nah, ousting rivals U.S.S.R meant backroom-backstabbing I.E a palace coup. Not tanks in the streets.
The OTL August Coup only came after democratic elections & political-economic implosion caused by Gorbachev's f**k-ups.
Plus Lebed didn’t have the nerve to oust the rotting vodka-pickled corpses of Yeltsin & co OTL. He wouldn’t move against an entrenched regime.
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But of course!Interesting side-note but in the event of all out nuclear war, there were no primary or secondary targets and only a few tertiary ones in the Jefferson area. That seems a bit relevant to this TL.
There'll be a nuclear war sometime in the near future, Rummy and Cheney will survive and relocate to Jefferson, where they'll rule as eternal dictators!
Thande
Donor
I forgot to mention that I was interested that "Behind the Fortress Walls" was published this early (I had pictured it happening in thw 1990s, even though the USSR likely won't fall) and that Chernenko of all people is suspected of being the author.
Also, everyone, remember Drew had a segment written in the present day by a bitter Chinese writer that demonstrates the world is still in one piece then, though badly battered. Also interestingly that part says that China has managed to reunify, albeit as a wreck, so Cheney's plans will ultimately come to naught...though India, perhaps not unconnectedly, has fragmented.
Also, everyone, remember Drew had a segment written in the present day by a bitter Chinese writer that demonstrates the world is still in one piece then, though badly battered. Also interestingly that part says that China has managed to reunify, albeit as a wreck, so Cheney's plans will ultimately come to naught...though India, perhaps not unconnectedly, has fragmented.
There will probably be a later edition that goes a bit more in depth, particularly about how Agnew really wanted to start a war. That wasn't in this version, or there would have been fallout.
John Farson
Banned
I wonder what will be the fates of Rummy, Cheney et al when the feces hits the fan? Death, exile, life in prison in Fort Leavenworth?
EDIT: Also, now that the Administration has apparently started a war on pornography - in the name of "national security" - with the shutting down of Penthouse and the imprisoning of Bob Guccione, I wonder what kind of backlash will arise now that millions of men (and probably a few women) see their porn being endangered? Maybe an XXX version of Prohibition, with illegal skin mags taking the place of bootleg alcohol? I can imagine some guy addressing an audience, grabbing an issue of Playboy or Penthouse and declaring "you'll take my porn from my cold, dead, sticky hands!!!"
EDIT: Also, now that the Administration has apparently started a war on pornography - in the name of "national security" - with the shutting down of Penthouse and the imprisoning of Bob Guccione, I wonder what kind of backlash will arise now that millions of men (and probably a few women
) see their porn being endangered? Maybe an XXX version of Prohibition, with illegal skin mags taking the place of bootleg alcohol? I can imagine some guy addressing an audience, grabbing an issue of Playboy or Penthouse and declaring "you'll take my porn from my cold, dead, sticky hands!!!"
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